[blackflamin]

Hello all, I'm still in the putting everthing together phase of my project. What I'd like to know is will I be able to still watch HDTV after this HDCP goes into effect (if at all). Guy at Bestbuy told me after July 5th without DVI I would only be able to get a 480p connection using component connection. Don't know if this is crap or not, just thought I ask the guys who do know. I was to replace my 42" projection TV with my PJ if I could watch HDTV on it.

[SIMJEDI]

Yep this is true. Built into almost every hidef box there is a circuit that will down rez all signals to 480p out of the component outputs and if your display has a DVI input without HDCP you will get a blank screen when they flip the switch.

People have warned about this for years, there has been a boatload of discussions about this over at AVSFORUMS if it would happen or not and it seems that yes it will happen.


peace

[Jessyka]

simjedi
How does this effect those using their computers for Home theater?

[SIMJEDI]

If you have a MYHD it maybe won't effect it as it does not have the circuitry built in, get it while you can because they stopped making them, but this is for over-the-air signals only. I read somewhere at AVS that it will also go blank when OTA broadcasters flip it. I hope not because I'm most likely getting one.

Any hope of cable or satellite viewing won't happen. There is speculation that almost every other HDTV tuner card for the pc has flag reading ability and you will need video card that has HDCP built in to view it.

Everybody who is building a projector will most likely not be able to display HDTV without something like the MYHD unless monitors start coming out with HDCP for them to be able to display it.
Hollywood is blocking all paths to viewing HDTV with a computer. :angry:

edit: Changed this about 5 times, time to goto bed.


peace

[blackflamin]

Well. I guess I better explain my situation. I currently own a RPTV with a compatible DVI. I was wanting to build me a projector so I can watch my sports in HD and play ps2 without the mrs fussing about wanting to watch something else. I didn't wanna have to go purchase anoter RPTV (really can't afford ) so I thought PJ would be my answer. So there will be noway to watch HDTV if I build one - you don't know how much that has hurt me . Really feel for my brother in law he jumped on HDTV at the beginning his TV doesn't even have a DVI to begin with. Just informed him and not to happy about it.

[Movieguy128]

This may be an option - and it's still being produced.

Another option is This. (It's a set top box.) It has the DVI/HDCP, but also has an RGB output. Quoted from the description, "DTV (RGB format) Output: The 15-pin connector allows you to connect to a TV, computer monitor, or another video component with an HD RGB video input. The RGB output jack can carry any of the Digital TV and HDTV video resolutions."

Seems like for a stand alone OTA setup that the Samsung SIR-T451 would fit the bill if their description is correct.

[pvfjr]

I'm confused. This site makes it sound like it only affects things with DVI that weren't created with HDCP in mind. It sounds as if component won't be affected. Is this true? I wanted to get some of the OTA HDTV around here, and already bought an antenna for it. I'm looking for a receiver, but don't want to get anything if it will only work for 6 months. I just want the OTA receiver, component output, N6, at 720p. Is this possible?

[Movieguy128]

No, that's not really what they're saying from what I interpret. Here's my understanding....

"New" equipment:
() An HDCP compliant sending unit (HDTV Satellite receiver, OTA HDTV receiver) may only send HD data (i.e. 720p/1080i) to a HDCP compliant receiving unit (i.e. Display). If one of the boxes is HDCP compliant and the other is not, no signal will be displayed via the DVI or the HDMI (another type of digital interconnection type) interconnections.

Since HDCP is a security protocol between boxes carried on a digital medium (i.e DVI or HDMI)., if you use the component outputs/inputs to interconnect the two boxes and thereby try to bypass this security protocol, (since component interconnections are analog), according to SIMJEDI, the component interconnections on the sending unit will downgrade to a 480p signal once HDCP is officially "turned on" by "the man."

The only way this makes sense is if each HDCP compliant sending unit has code written in it to automatically downgrade the component outputs to 480p under certain conditions (possible) or are already hardwired to only provide 480p via the component outputs (unlikely as what would be the point of having them then? )

"Old" equipment:
() If you are interconnecting "old" HD equipment (both sending and receiving units) that do not have HDCP compliance "built in" to then, then they should "talk" to one another in HD (i.e. 720p/1080i) without an issue even once "the man" activates HDCP.

Now the conjecture here is that even old boxes could possibly be "updated" to be HDCP compliant through a firmware revision or I suppose even "scrambled" somehow to prevent their continued use. I can't fathom how you could revise the code in a non-compliant OTA set top box unless it had some sort of dialup capabilities (don't know of any that have this), but satellite receivers and cable receivers would be a different matter. If they could be made compliant through some sort of update, then you are back to the "New equipment" situation above where you have 1 HDCP compliant box and 1 non-compliant HDCP box. i.e. no HD picture, only 480p via the component interconnections. Personally I don't think this is likely, but I could be wrong.

Solution:
Seems to me the device that is needed is a box that has HDCP-compliant DVI/HDMI inputs on one side of it and RGB/component/non-compliant HDCP DVI outputs on the other. This box would essentially bypass the HDCP protection scheme by allowing the sending device to get security authorization to transmit via DVI/HDMI.

Once this "magic box" receives the HDCP-compliant signal on one side it would translate it in to a non-HDCP-compliant version on the other side. The thing is I suspect that SOMEONE will eventually come out with a box like this because otherwise there are going to be a lot of folks hacked off when their older 1080i TV downgrades to 480p literally overnight because of some "magic switch" flipped by "the man." Without a DVI/component or even HDCP-compliant DVI to non-compliant-HDCP DVI box, their HDTV is no longer HD. :angry:

I freely admit that I am a beginner to the whole HDCP area, so I could be off base a bit, but at least that's how I understand things at this point. Hope this helps and doesn't muddy them up further.

[Movieguy128]

Son of a gun, Looks like someone is already making a box that should solve this whole issue for Lumenlab folk.

HDCP DVI - to - VGA

[pvfjr]

So should I be searching for an "old" receiver on ebay? I can't see forking over $300 for that conversion.

[Jessyka]

Can't we just buy a video card with DVI and use that?

[Johnathan]

Jessyka, on Jan 10 2005, 02:29 PM, said:

Can't we just buy a video card with DVI and use that?

A video card with a DVI input? It still wouldn't be HDCP compliant (if they ever made such a thing.)

-j

[Movieguy128]

pvfjr, on Jan 10 2005, 04:39 AM, said:

So should I be searching for an "old" receiver on ebay?

Answer: Maybe.

The problem is there is a ton of conjecture and very little true knowledge about what will **REALLY** happen after HDCP gets "activated" on HDTV.

Will new set top boxes (be they OTA, cable, or satelitte) **REALLY** downgrade the component outputs to 480p as Simjedi suggests or will the component outputs continue to be able to generate 720p/1080i output? Will "old" non-HDCP set top OTA boxes become useless and inoperable due to "the man" flipping the proverbial switch? What about HDCP compliant software (i.e. DVDs) - will the HDCP flags in them prevent the sending equipment (i.e. players) from providing component output?

The REAL answer to this is that nobody here (or from what I can find on the AVS forums) knows for sure - it's pretty much all speculation based on rumor about what will happen when the HDTV HDCP "switch is flipped."

What IS known is that if you want to hook up a HDCP-compliant sending device to a display via the DVI or HDMI outputs today, you MUST have an HDCP-compliant display. As for now, there is a solution for HDCP-DVI to VGA conversion. How long that will work is unknown though as apparently there are some ways to use flags to render it unusable if the manufacturers decide to "kick it out" of the "trusted" HDCP devices.

Simple answer to everything is to wait and see. If "old" HDTV non-HDCP set top receivers are the "ticket out" of the HDCP mess, you can bet they will command a high price in the future.

[pvfjr]

I guess I'll just get an old one somewhere. It would be less risky than buying an expensive new one. Worse comes to worse I'd just have DTV instead of HDTV. Wouldn't "the man" be kind of obligated to let us know EXACTLY what is going to happen? Especially since someone's HDTV that really isn't all that old, which they may have paid thousands for, could suddenly become obsolete. I can't understand how they can do something like this, doesn't really seem fair.

[blackflamin]

pvfjr, on Jan 10 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

Wouldn't "the man" be kind of obligated to let us know EXACTLY what is going to happen? Especially since someone's HDTV that really isn't all that old, which they may have paid thousands for, could suddenly become obsolete. I can't understand how they can do something like this, doesn't really seem fair.

I agree because DVI wasn't as much of a standard output in the earlier HD sets as they are now. I know there has got to be millions of HD sets out there with no DVI. What's even worse is not all DVI are HDCP so are those people are gonna be left out too? I imagine somebody will come up with some kinda work around box cause there's probably gonna be a market for it. Well find out when all goes down .

[Movieguy128]

blackflamin, on Jan 10 2005, 02:59 PM, said:

... I know there has got to be millions of HD sets out there with no DVI. ...  I imagine somebody will come up with some kinda work around box cause there's probably gonna be a market for it.

**Flag: Speculation-> ON **

Exactly what I'm thinking. Another problem would be for those who purchased switching equipment (i.e. receivers/processors) that have component switching capability but no DVI anywhere on them. If you have a cheapie Sony, JVC or such, you're not out that much money, but for folks who bought a Lexicon, Theata, or such will be pretty irked when their multi-thousand dolar processor is reduced to a 480p switcher because of the HDCP scheme.

From everything I've read HDCP is to protect the digital outputs of a device to prevent unauthorized digital copies of software. Since component outputs are analog, they shouldn't be affected unless the statement SIMJEDI made about the downgrade to 480p on the component (analog) outputs is true. If this is not the case, then the good 'ol N6 and a new (or old) OTA HDTV set top box with component outputs would allow you to receive and watch 720p/1080i HDTV.

Personally, I have serious doubts that the component outputs of any box (be it satellite/OTA/cable) will "auto-downgrade" to 480p upon "activation" of HDCP. I've seen no evidence from any manufacturer or "official agency" stating that will happen. And, like you (and I) said, it will really hack off the early adopters of HDTV. Could I be wrong and we're all screwed? Sure, but I suspect that as long as someone stays component and skips the whole DVI input/output arena, they'll still be able to receive/process/display 720p and 1080i media.

**Flag: Speculation-> OFF **